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Post by ChrisAsbrockFTI on Nov 4, 2014 13:05:07 GMT -5
With Andy Dalton comes great debate.
Some love him, some hate him.
There was a little debate at lunch earlier today on where Andy fits in the hierarchy of NFL quarterbacks.
I say Andy Dalton is a top 15 quarterback in the league.
What do you think?
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Post by edubbs on Nov 4, 2014 13:24:48 GMT -5
Top 20.
Aaaand I take back what I said about Dalton and Alex Smith being a toss up. I'd take Smith in a heartbeat. They have both played 3 playoff games. Which stat line would you rather have?
Playoff rating:
103.2 97.6 119.7
or
51.4 44.7 67.0
'nuff said.
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Post by ChrisAsbrockFTI on Nov 4, 2014 13:51:24 GMT -5
I'll give you Smith is a better playoff QB, stat-wise. However, for those amazing numbers, Smith is 1-2 as a starter in the playoffs and has never lead his team to the playoffs 3 straight years. Not to mention, the playoffs in his first 3 seasons in the NFL. I would no doubt pick Dalton over Alex Smith.
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Post by edubbs on Nov 4, 2014 14:17:59 GMT -5
Then you won't win any playoff games. That is cool. Go regular season! That's what matters!
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Post by ChrisAsbrockFTI on Nov 19, 2014 10:26:00 GMT -5
Sunday was the Dalton that I stick up for. Dalton played a fantastic game against New Orleans and I am 100% confident the Bengals can win a Super Bowl if Dalton plays like that. Now, I must admit, Dalton and the ENTIRE team must play better under the bright lights.
I will add one more thing, the people who crucify Dalton on a weekly basis, will never give him credit when he deserves it. I am a "Dalton apologist" but I will criticise him when he deserves it.
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Post by edubbs on Nov 19, 2014 11:10:48 GMT -5
I will give him credit when he deserves it. He played a good game last week. But the lights were out and New Orleans didn't even look like they knew what a football was. Seriously... they were still running the ball down by 3 scores in the 4th quarter... knowing they had Drew Brees as their quarterback. So, I'd have to say the defense stepped up big time and took some pressure off Andy.
That being said, he won't win you a playoff game. He doesn't have a short enough memory. Andy gets himself worked up for limelight games and makes early mistakes and that is how the "Bad Andy" ball starts rolling. When the ball starts rolling, you have bad Andy for 60 minutes.
Now if your defense can step up huge and get some scores... then yeah you can win a playoff game.
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Post by showtopp12 on Nov 19, 2014 13:58:38 GMT -5
I'm all in on Andy Dalton. As long as he doesn't turn it over, he's fine. I completely think he can get us to Super Bowl this season. That being said, if we have another first round exit, or no playoff appearance at all, do we look at another QB via the draft or trade? This team will be good enough to win it all for another 1-3 years. Would you want a Jameis Winston if he fell down to the 20s where the Bengals will be picking? Or would you want an RGIII, Nick Foles type of guy via trade? Or are none of those options better than Andy Dalton. That's always been my thing to people who complain: Who would you rather have (thats realistic at obtaining)?
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Post by edubbs on Nov 19, 2014 15:32:42 GMT -5
I believe Andy has this year and next year (based on his contract) to produce and if he doesn't, get rid of him. If this year ends in the first round, this next draft, I'd look at a quarterback with maybe a #3 pick. Let him compete with McCarron as the #2. Then if Dalton fails, put your backup in starting 2016. I think it is just too difficult for a QB to come into a new system and produce that year. McCarron will have 3 years to cook and his new competition will have a year on the burners. That will be good enough.
If you get a guy in the #1 or even #2 spot, people are going to expect that guy to start immediately (or as soon as Dalton throws another 2 passer rating). Going deeper in the draft you will still find some quality (albeit raw) QB's but given a couple years on a pro system as a backup they can learn what they need to succeed.
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Post by ChrisAsbrockFTI on Nov 24, 2014 16:05:51 GMT -5
That is why the Bengals structured the contract the way they did. He does have to prove himself. However, Dalton has gotten his team to the playoffs every year he's been in the league. In those playoff performances, the team did not play well. Dalton was certainly to blame too. I couldn't agree more with showtopp12 because there is truly nobody out there, realistically available, that I would rather have. AJ McCarron is not the answer. Dalton is the type of quarterback that cannot take a team entirely on his shoulders and win games. He has to have help. That is fine because there arent too many quarterbacks that can do that. Dalton can win you a championship. The whole team will have to step up and play well and that is what I expect from a playoff team anyway.
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Post by edubbs on Nov 25, 2014 9:13:26 GMT -5
How do you know McCarron is not the answer? I bet you were saying draft pick #199 Tom Brady wasn't the answer when Drew Bledsoe was the starter.
Regardless, I KNOW Andy Dalton is NOT the answer. He has proven not once, not twice, not three times, not four times, not five times, not six times, not etc. etc. etc. he CAN'T play when the lights are on and the game truly matters. He has the ability to bring a whole team down when Bad Andy is on the field. It doesn't matter if your defense is playing great. Bad Andy is a destructive force and is undeniably the worst QB in the league.
Move aside Bengals... The Steelers and Ravens are on the doorstep and have QB's that CAN will a team to a win.
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Post by showtopp12 on Nov 25, 2014 9:59:07 GMT -5
AJ McCarron wasn't even very good in college. Winning quarterback, yes, but I have a hard time believing in guys who don't even do it at the college level. He is a worse Andy Dalton in my opinion. If that is our best solution, then Dalton will definitely be the quarterback until something better comes along. Also, with the Ravens, I'd say Flacco is on the same level as Dalton. I'd be torn if you asked me to pick one to be my quarterback
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Post by ChrisAsbrockFTI on Nov 25, 2014 14:09:18 GMT -5
Tom Brady was truly a 1/1,000,000 situation. As for AJ, I was never a fan of AJ McCarron at Bama. The only thing I liked about McCarron was his girlfriend. I personally wanted Aaron Murray. I thought he would have been a great fit here. Nick Saban has a history of having great college quarterbacks who don't do anything past college (Marcus Randall, Jarmarcus Russell, John Parker Wilson, Rohan Davey and Greg McElroy to name a few). Those quarterbacks had solid college football careers. That is why AJ McCarron is NOT the answer.
Now back to Dalton. The Bengals are 6-14 under Marvin in primetime games. That falls on coaching, so I am not going to place all blame on Andy like most people will. As I have said before, Dalton is not a quarterback that can throw it 40 times a game. That just isnt him. Dalton should be throwing it around 25x a game. To me, that falls on Gruden. He handcuffed Dalton and made him throw it more than he should have, all while bailing on the running game. This season, the Bengals have the best 1-2 RB duo in football. Hue Jackson needs to be using that more. Let Andy manage the game and use our great running backs.
I agree, the Bengals must get better in big games and that falls on Marvin.
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Post by edubbs on Nov 26, 2014 8:39:28 GMT -5
You must not have watched Bad Andy. Let me paint a picture of who Bad Andy really is... Bad Andy makes the whole team bad. On his bad days, which he typically has in big games, he makes the infamous Butt Fumble look like a great play. It doesn't matter if your whole team plays great or not. When your offense is going three and out each set of downs, your defense gets tired and gets beat. When you are afraid to throw the ball, playoff caliber defenses will bear down on the run. Bad Andy can't make passes to wide open receivers so defenses load the box and just destroy the run game. Even throwing as little as 25 times... Bad Andy throwing one time could be a mistake.
To a degree it does come down to coaching... I can usually spot Bad Andy on his first pass attempt. However, I am not really sure what a coach can do with Bad Andy once identified. I guess deal with a pummeling and let fans blame you saying you didn't prepare the team... when the real problem was the maturity level of your quarterback. You can't coach maturity in the NFL. In college, yes, but not in the NFL.
Besides J Russ, I haven't heard of those guys. Did they actually get a shot at a starting job in the NFL? Besides, so long as AJ doesn't throw on his heels during big games, he is head and shoulders above Andy. Aaaaand not to mention, you told me earlier, AJ had a great supporting cast at Alabama and that is why he did well. Well, he would have a great supporting cast in Cincy and under your own philosophy, he would do well here. He could be a game manager... and that is what you need on a talented team. Not Bad Andy, the destructive force that can single-handedly make your team awful.
This coming from a guy that isn't a big AJ fan but knows when your QB earns a nickname, "Bad Andy", you probably should start looking for other QB's.
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Post by ChrisAsbrockFTI on Nov 26, 2014 9:39:38 GMT -5
Believe me, I've seen bad Andy. What it comes down to is that people who don't like Andy will never like him and they will stand for nothing less than him being gone. All I have to say is be careful what you wish for.
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Post by edubbs on Nov 26, 2014 11:59:03 GMT -5
All I want... is for Cincinnati not to be embarrassed on national television.
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